Sunday, May 06, 2007

Why I left Christianity

Can we hang out tonight underneath Your ceiling
I could stare up at a million lights and listen to You breathing
If I fall fast asleep it's just because I feel so safe in You
It won't take much to wake me up

These few lines are taken from one of my favourite songs, A Million Lights, by the South African Christian rock band, Tree63. The lyrics of the song describe and epitomise the exact feelings I felt as a Christian: one of absolute wonder and awe at the fact that I - a small, insignificant speck - had a personal relationship with the Creator of the universe. The words from the song say it so well: God’s breathing was so evident in the motions of the planets and the twinkling of the stars. In my mind, God existed, and not only was he interested in me, but he had suffered for me. Such a God could only receive the best of my love and worship.

But now I’m not so sure anymore. The faith that I once had in God’s existence is gone. After many years of struggle and personal introspection, I’ve come to a point where I no longer consider myself a Christian. I did not fall away from Christianity because I wanted to live a life free from moral constraints; I did not leave because other Christians hurt me. I left because the claims of Christianity simply did not match up with what I observed and experienced in the world around me. I was struggling to build a puzzle of my understanding of life, the world, and existence, and I slowly realised that the puzzle didn’t match the box cover (i.e., the paradigm of Christianity) that I had been taught.

There were many reasons why I left, but here are the main ones. I’ve included links to relevant blog posts under each heading if you want to read further.

1) Relating to a God behind a one-way mirror
An omnipresent recluse
One way-mirror
Rejecting the concept of God
The potter and the clay

2) God’s morality
Following God’s example?

3) The concept of Hell
My take of Pascal’s wager
Using the fear of hell

4) God's demand for belief
Why is God so concerned about my beliefs?

5) Evaluating Biblical claims
Consistency of thought
Invisible bunnies in my computer
Miracles and the truthfulness of Acts
Why I don’t believe in the Resurrection
Skeptic in training
Bible study: The dangerous child myth

I have now reached a place of peace regarding my position, and have begun to build a new world view based on four beliefs: (1) my life is valuable for its own sake; (2) I’m not a second-class citizen in the universe, deriving meaning and purpose from some other mind; (3) I am not inherently evil, but inherently human, and (4) I possess the rational potential to make a positive difference in this world.*

The following posts describe how I’m striving to find meaning without religion:
Can an atheist find meaning in life?
What does it mean to be an atheist?
Living by the rule, rather than the exception

Although I am no longer a Christian, I’m open to respectful dialogue regarding my de-conversion with Christians and non-Christians alike. So you are welcome to read my posts and leave comments.

I still feel awe and wonder when I look up at the night sky, but not at the fact that there is a supernatural being out there looking after me, but at the fact that I, a sentient and frail being, have acquired – against incredible odds – a brief period of consciousness in which I can learn, experience life, and make a small difference.

(*) from Dan Barker’s Loosing Faith in Faith (pg 233)

64 comments:

Mark said...

Hey Kevin

I dont think I have ever asked you this. I have been reading through your blogs for a while now, but I am still a bit unsure of the process of your deconversion.

Did you suddenly one day wake up, having all your frustrations build up in your head, choose to deny the existance of a God.

Or, if it was a process, what was the process for you to get the point you are at now and how long did it take before you came to decision.

I think you know the state I am still in, I have not been able to fully accept the non-existance of a God yet. I have come to a place of agnosticm. Did you come to this place at all where you couldn't deny as such but could not carry on?

Did you ever search in other religions? Why I ask is I it dawned on me the other day on how christianity always seems to be the last resort for everyone. When people deny christianity, they deny God as a whole, and all possibilities of any God, is false.

Thanks, just want to know your thoughts as I seem to be sliding my wheels in mud right now, im a bit stuck in one place.

Kevin Cadman said...

Hey Kevin... hope you're well.

Where did you get hold of Losing Faith in Faith? I've been looking around for it and nobody seems to have it. I'm really keen to read it.

I've just read Sam Brown's "A Letter to a Christian Nation"; I didn't think it was that great.

How is Losing Faith in Faith?

Cheers,
kev

Jason Estock said...

Kevin,
I have recently left Christianity. It has really helped that there are other's on the web with a similar experience to my own. I have enjoyed reading your's and Cori's blogs very much. Yours is specifically written from a perspective more similar to my own, but I like Cori's writing as well. She is different from the type of Christians I grew up around. Anyhow, just wanted to say thank you and "nice work".

-Jason Estock
www.jasonestock.blogspot.com

Laughing Boy said...

I am unsure why atheism is a better fit to Dan Barker's four beliefs than theism or specifically Christianity. Please clarify when you have the time.

1: What teaching in Christianity says that a life (for it's own sake) is not valuable? God is said to even acknowledge the falling of a soul-less sparrow.

2: Humans are the crowning achievement of creation, God's most exquitise work. A Stradivarius is inherently valuable, not a piece of crap with a nice label glued on. How does tha fact that that value was imbued by a craftsman devalue the instrument itself? Is not the opposite true?

3: Nothing God created is inherently evil since God would then be the author of evil. Now this subject can quickly enter the area of free-will and omniscience, but for the topic as hand, Christian doctrines do not teach that man is "inherently" evil. Christian doctrines teach that since the Fall mankind is predisposed to do evil, not inherently evil.

4: I realize there may be room to debate my take on #s 1-3, but with apologies to Mr. Barker, #4 makes no sense at all to me. What Christian doctrine teaches that people do not posess the "rational potential to make a positive difference in this world"? What am I missing? I leave church every Sunday under orders, so to speak, to do just that.

If you felt like the opposite of these 4 things were true of you as a Christian I can see why you left the faith.

--

Thanks for creating this anthology of your posts. Will you be looking for responses here or at the various posts?

Kevin Parry said...

Hi all! Thank you all for taking the time to comment. I will respond to a number of points that have been raised.

Mark wrote:
Or, if it was a process, what was the process for you to get the point you are at now and how long did it take before you came to decision.

I appreciate the question, Mark. It was a slow process that spanned about four years (from 2000 to about 2004). The first stage involved doubt; the second guilt, shame and confusion; the third contemplation and reflection (this is when I started my blog); and the fourth stability. It wasn’t a sudden thing, but a slow transformation of my world view. Although I call myself an atheist, I also consider myself an agnostic. I’m an atheist in terms of belief, but an agnostic in terms of knowledge regarding the existence of God (see here).

Kevin Cadman wrote
Where did you get hold of Losing Faith in Faith? I've been looking around for it and nobody seems to have it. I'm really keen to read it.

I ordered the book from Amazon about two years ago (I didn't even try looking for it here). It was a great book, so try and get hold of it if you can. It's not as cerebral as the God Delusion, but it provides a good picture of the feelings and emotions that one goes through when they loose their faith. I reviewed Loosing Faith in Faith here. I've never read Sam Brown's 'Letter to a Christian Nation', so I can't compare it to Loosing Faith in Faith; from what I've heard, it more focussed on the situation in the United States.

Laughing Boy wrote
Please clarify when you have the time.

Thanks for the comment. This isn’t the case in all churches, but - like Barker - I was taught that non-believers could never be moral, hopeful and peaceful human beings. I could be wrong, but I don’t believe Barker’s comment is referring to Christianity at all. He is not saying that Christians lack these positive attributes; rather, I think he is highlighting the fact that non-believers can be these things without religion. At least, that is the way I interpret it, and that is the way I adopt it.

All the best
Kevin

Laughing Boy said...

I was taught that non-believers could never be moral, hopeful and peaceful human beings.

Obviously, you were taught wrong. Does it ever concern you that perhaps much of what you find unacceptable about Christianity is not really Christianity at all?

Kevin Parry said...

Laughing Boy wrote:
Obviously, you were taught wrong. Does it ever concern you that perhaps much of what you find unacceptable about Christianity is not really Christianity at all?

Hi Laughing Boy. It depends on which version of Christianity one is following. The Sunday School teachers, youth leaders and pastors who mentored me while I was a Christian honestly believed that they were right, and because of their conservative beliefs they would find the statements of ‘liberal’ or ‘emergent’ Christians wrong. Of course, there is no way to tell which version of Christianity is right; I’ve heard both fundamentalist and liberal pastors claiming that they are right because they base their beliefs on the Bible.

And there are other things that I find unacceptable (this is a strong word: I would rather say ‘improbable’ or 'confusing') about Christianity in the general sense, such as the existence of the supernatural, miracles, etc.

All the best
Kevin

Laughing Boy said...

Of course, there is no way to tell which version of Christianity is right...

Yes there is, but you have to:

a) take the view that words mean certain things and not just anything you want them to,

b) read the whole Bible and not just the parts you like,

c) think, and

d) pray.

Pretty much every Christian claims to base their beliefs on the Bible (except for some liberals and emergents who take an inconsistently agnostic view of scripture). That is the very reason that they can be challenged, because if you take a close look at both (scriptures and beliefs), they may not quite line up.

Yes, the Bible is, in some places, a difficult book. It's ancient and it's been translated out of the original languages. But it is not incomprehensible. Nor is it proper to say that there are equally valid but contrary interpretations. You can't do that with any other book. You can't do that with the Bible.

Just so you know, I'm sure that some of my own beliefs are not strictly Biblical and I should be willing to revise them when I'm confronted with the discrepency.

Semper Reformada.

jesusfreak4ever said...

Hey! Wow, I've never heard of ex-Christian before. I just wanted to show you a few things:
Lamentations 3:31-33 says
For the Lord does notabandon anyone forever. Though He brings grief, He also shows campassion according to the greatness of His unfailing love.
1 Corinthians 10:13 says that God will NEVER give us more than we can handle.
Yeah, I'm only 15 years old but I know about God's love. Right now I am struggling in my life, in what I believe and what is right. But I know that God loves me and that I can always cast my hardships and burdens onto Him. Kevin, don't EVER lose faith in God. He will be your strength, your everlasting water, your joy and love. I feel so much joy right now I can't even describe it! I want you to know that I'll be praying for you!

Reminiscence said...

Hey Kevin, congrats on leaving the faith behind. Good to hear there are like minded individuals out there. Anyways I've linked your site to mine, maybe return the favour?

Anyways just for the Christians that have posted here, just wanna ask you guys a couple of questions:

You believe in prayer right? Has God at anytime in the past healed a severed leg? I don't think so. So that proves that prayer doesn't work, and that Jesus lied. He didn't exist anyways. Read your bible, and maybe understand that the reason we despise it so much, is cause if you read it in plain english and look up the meaning of the phrases it means something horrific. The word Holy should be taken from it's cover. But you tell us that we should rather let the priests and whoever interpret the verses for us. Which is a load crock! Maybe you should do some reading of your own and look at the real world.

Sites like, www.evilbible.com and www.godisimaginary.com is a good place to start. Also check out my blog at http://instigant.blogspot.com

Kind Regards
Reminiscence

Mark said...

Reminiscence

I am interested. How do you come to the conclusion that prayer doesn’t work just because God hasn’t healed a severed leg? Also where in the Bible does it say things that mean something horrific and what is the context?

Reminiscence said...

"Mark 11:24: Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours."

"Matthew 17:20: For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you."

James 5:15-16: "And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective."

First off am I reading this wrong? Does the bible mean something else when it says words like, "powerful" and "impossible"?

So if you actually look at scientific data about the effectiveness of prayer and you don't need to look far, it will show that it doesn't work AT ALL. And just cause you think it does, doesn't mean jack, cause hundreds of millions of people are suffering each day, where is prayer to help those? Oh wait it's part of God's plan. Maybe you should wake up and smell the coffee and face reality.

And about horrific things in the bible, you just couldn't hold yourself back bringing in the word "context". As if only certain people understand the context it was in. Plain english is doing the deed good enough.

For some horrific passages, I assume you have access to a bible.

Book of Judges, read Chapter 19 from the beginning till the end.

Then go to: Genesis, Chapter 34 till the end.

I can go on but that should be enough reading to evoke a certain question, if not, read with more attention.

And for some sad contradictions, check out: The Gospel According to St. Luke, Chapter 1, Verses 26–31 and 34.

St. Matthew, Chapter 1, Verses 1 and 18-25. If you read it right, you'll understand that Joseph played no part in Jesus's bloodline. So Jesus is of no bloodline, so it's irrelevant if Joseph is from David's bloodline.

Anyways tell me this, can you name your bloodline over literally a couple of centuries? I doubt it, probably stuck at your great-grandfather.

Regards
Reminiscence

Wayne said...

Hi Kevin,

I have looked through some of the posts on your blog and have not found an account of your original conversion to Christianity. Can you tell us the story of how you originally became a Christian?

Jason said...

hey reminiscence,

context, allbeit you don't like the word. however, anyone can reach into the bible and rip out a part of a passage and make it sound like something it's not:

deuteronomy 6:14-15
"do not follow other gods, the gods of the peoples around you; for the LORD your God, who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land."

does this mean that anyone who follows other gods will be destroyed from the face of the land? if that was the case, we'd all be destroyed since people follow tons of other "gods" ... ie. money, power, etc. christians and non-christians alike need to be careful how they use scripture to make their point ...

with respect to effectiveness of prayer. firstly, we are told not to test god (Deuteronomy 6:16). secondly, you're looking at the action verbs and not at what the verses are trying to communicate ...

"the prayer of a righteous man"
"if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed"

those passages aren't saying that if you pray you can literally move mountains and you can get whatever you like - they are saying that you need to have the faith of a child, to be righteous and confess your sins, and to pray for one another. god will answer your prayer, but it may not be in the way you wanted. my dad almost bought a golf course until it fell through on the last day of the deal. i could get mad and say "that's not what i prayed for god!" ... or i could rejoice in that he answered our prayers by probably saving us from a severe mistake in purchasing the golf course.

also, why not ask yourself the question why jesus didn't pray for god to save him from the cross? ... god can do anything, and jesus was god, the most righteous and holy man whoever walked this earth ...

hundred of millions of people suffer because of sin. we live in a world full of sin, and until sin came into this place, there was no pain and suffering. it's our own fault that these things happen - but we can make a difference by praying for them, and even more tangibly through sponsoring a child overseas. "god's plan" as you put it, is not to kill hundreds of innocent people everyday ... if you jump of a bridge and kill yourself tomorrow, was that gods plan, or was that your own choice?

just some stuff to think about,
jason

foxstar128 said...

Atheist are insane. That is all there is to it. God answers my prayers all the time. In such amazing ways all the time that there is no way for these things to be by chance. Anybody that says God does not answer prayer never really had a relationship with God.

What happened? Do you ask God for something you did not get and so all the sudden you don't believe? God does not owe us anything but gives abundantly because of his love. Remember that God knows all and he probably could see how such a brat you were. He could see that you would only love God if he was your personal genie. God is not a genie. He answers prayer out of love.

Why should your Heavenly father answer your prayer when you slander him so. Would I buy my son gifts and reward him if he said I did not exist. Nope, if I don't exist then he gets nothing. God has done amazing miracles. Yes God has grown a leg back before. I have witnessed a man rise from the dead after he was dead for 3 days. He is so proud to show everybody his death certificate LOL! Satan controls the news media so they will never report that stuff.

Go look at this video

http://youtube.com/watch?v=BKmdIdQg3Ks

After that go to my blog at http://love128.blogspot.com/
Read the post "The amazing ness of God!"

Jason Hughes said...

Foxstar said: I have witnessed a man rise from the dead after he was dead for 3 days.

I thought it was "appointed unto man once to die"?

Kevin Parry said...

Foxstar wrote:
God knows all and he probably could see how such a brat you were

I don’t know if your post is for real. If it is, I have only one thing to say in response to your comment. I assume you are a born again Christian, and I assume that you have pledged to follow the example of Jesus and to love others as God commanded. If this comment of yours is an example of your God’s love, then I’m REALLY glad I left Christianity.

Anonymous said...

A person cannot be an ex-Christian. Why? Because true Christians have identified with the death and ressurection of Jesus Christ. They've not only comprehended the magnitude of their sin and their need of repentance and forgiveness, but have also come to the place of understanding that Christ's death on the cross is the only acceptable payment for sin (Titus 3:3-6)

This is the reason why true Christians all around the world refuse to denounce their faith in God and are being tortured and killed everyday like Paul and the other true believers in the Bible. It's because our faith in God goes beyond a feeling or a religious phase. It's real and we can't be talked out of it by some book or mere human intellect. God's full character is beyond our limited ability to comprehend, but that's why He's God and we're not and I like it that way.

To complain about God not healing or about our being mistreated is a disgrace to the incredible love of God - love that came down to earth and went through a living hell that I wouldn't wish on my greatest enemy (Philippians 2). Read Hebrews 10:26-31.

I've had an incredibly difficult life, but God has gone through every trial with me like he said. Heck, He even said that life would be hard (John 16:33).

Reuben said...

I just found your blog. I would almost agree with you on everything. Except you never seem to answer the reason why we exist at all. Maybe we can know, you just haven't found the proof yet. To say that you can never know and you except this life as your only one is wrong even from your point of view. Only say you haven't found it yet. I just worry that Christians know something we don't. Altho there are so many lame Christians out there that don't even know what they believe that I react and say go to hell to you all, I hate this God you describe coz he acutally sounds like a sicko to me. Don't describe him as some loving person. I just know I've got this yearning for more than just this life.... so until I find it or I die, I cannot accept your view that the point of this life is this life... peace.

Anonymous said...

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

"I have come that you may have life and have it to the fullest" John 10:10

Our only meaning in life is found in a relationship with God through Jesus Christ his son. Read the book of John with an open heart and mind and you'll discover the true meaning of life.

Yeah there are a lot of bone-head, hypocritical Christians (so-called) out there, but remember they are just mere humans. We humans will always do and say stupid things. God wants us to put our trust and hope in HIM, not his creation.

Scott

Dawn Wessel said...

Why can't a person be evolution/I.D. at the same time? Why do you have to give up one for the other?

If the God of the Bible did in fact create the earth, and all Mr. Darwin did was study that and tell us what he saw there, wouldn't that make him God's advocate rather than God's enemy?

Read a new twist to the evolution-creation/I.D. debate at my url.

Singing4Jesus said...

Kevin,
I was reading your post The Final Prayer, and that really touched me. I know that God exsists and I know that He loves me. Now I am only 15 years old but that doesn't mean that I don't know anything about "religion". I have had thoughts of weather God really exsists so I kinda know how you are feeling. Christianity isn't just about going to church on Sundays, going to (or helping with) youth group on Wednesdays, praying before each meal and reading a couple Bible verses each day. It's about a relationship with Him. We can't always see, hear or feel God. Sometimes He doesn't directly speak to us, or shows us things for a while because He wants to strengthen our faith. I'm learning that right now. I used to be able to clearly hear His voice (not audibly...I wish! :]), to actually be able to see His angels in my room, to actually FEEL His love. But that rarely happens anymore and it's hard. He's testing me to see if I will stay with Him. He's testing my faith. I know that it's hard to believe when you can't know FOR SURE that He is there...but then I look back to those times during worship @ youth group or when I was in my room, listening to worship music when I could actually feel His presence and His love and that keeps me going. I am praying for you.
:)
-Singing4Jesus (KD)
1reason2live.blogspot.com

MonoApe said...

"He's testing me to see if I will stay with Him. He's testing my faith."

The invisible and the non-existent often look very similar.

Anonymous said...

I would really like to know 2 things. First HAVE YOU EVER READ the BIBLE, I mean READ the ORIGINAL version that was ORIGINALLY Written, not the Junk that is available today. Second is I have SCRIPTURAL PROOF that ALL and I mean ALL of Doctrines taught in the CHURCHES is FALSE FALSE FALSE... man if you would only reply to me at bizzy4me@sbcglobal.net You would see it yourself.... A FRIEND

Bill said...

Very interesting blog. Though I have just begun to look at your site, I can see that I have been struggling with many of the same kinds of issues. As I have played near the edge of agnosticism, and questioned more and more deeply into the basic tenets of my faith, one thing haunts me: what if I am just becoming hardened?

For reasons expressed on my own blog, I cannot accept a sort of logical positivist epsitemology. I clearly see the subjective nature of any knowlege or belief. So, I also see that what I do and do not, at the present time, believe, is strongly influenced by subjective inclinations and factors.

On top of this, there is reason to believe that Christian faith is essentially subjective, though based on objective facts. In fact belief in any proposition is always essentially subjective, as Polanyi has shown. Evidence can never lead to 100% certainty apart from this subjective element.

The movement from uncertainty to more certainty is always subjective in nature. In fact, this is true about any knowlege, including scientific knowlege.

So, because Christian faith has this subjective, internal component, that is, because whether I believe or not given certain evidence depends on my subjective inclinations and predispositions, paradigms, etc., it is concievable that I could lose my faith due to a change only in these internal factors.

Is this what the writer to the Hebrews calls a hardening of the heart?

It is conceivable that I could be looking at the same evidenc ethat used to convince me, and it no longer convinces me because of a change within me - a hardening.

Anonymous said...

I can not flippantly disregard your struggle and spout the "approved" epithets at you. It is obvious that this has been difficult and if I were to spout all the "right things" at you it would seem to me that it would marginalize what you are going through (or have gone through) and that seems wrong to me. So I appreciate your honesty and your hard questions, if you are interested there is an author who has written a few books addressing some of the questions you have asked, his name is Lee Strobel. I'm not telling you this in hopes that it will change your mind, that is between you and your mind, but they are interesting books and some fascinating answers he has found.
GothiqueFae

Nikki said...

Hi! I was just researching on Metaphysical Materialism for my philosophy class and I stumbled upon your blog somehow. I am a Christian (or so I believe), but I'm not going to shove the Bible down your throat. I just want to say that I can relate with the part where you talked about the overwhelming feeling of looking at the stars back when you were still a Christian. As I was reading what you wrote, I recalled the times when I talked to God while staring at the stars. That's one of my favorite things to do when I go to beaches here in the Philippines.

You sound like an interesting person and maybe I'd enjoy to have a friend like you.

I hope the best for you!

school for the girls said...

Hallo Thank for your wonderful thoughts.
I think it is some how difficult to comment on your blog as a christian because your thought are so conc.


But as much as you are an ex christian i pray you do know that God does exist and some religious teaches are false like: God died for our sins.Jesus is not God but he was sent by God.

Thanks for the wonderful thoughts
Rebecca

Anonymous said...

Hi Kevin,
I'm also in process of leaving Protestant church. Since they claimed to have the Truth but they don't.

However instead of becoming a non-believer, I'm going to the source, the Catholic church.

As Protestant, we were brainwashed to think of Catholics as heretics. But it's the other way around. As G.K.Chesterton said: "Protestant lied about Catholic lying".

Some suggested reading:
By What Authority?: An Evangelical Discovers Catholic Tradition

THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND CONVERSION
the following quote from the CONVERSION showed how Protestant's claim is non-sense:
[ The ordinary sensible sceptic or pagan is standing in the street (in the
supreme character of the man in the street) and he sees a procession go by of the priests of some strange cult, carrying their object of worship under a canopy, some of them wearing high
head-dresses and carrying symbolical staffs, others carrying scrolls and sacred records, others carrying sacred images and lighted candles before them, others sacred relics in caskets or
cases, and so on. I can understand the spectator saying, "This is all
hocus-pocus"; I can even understand him, in moments of irritation,
breaking up the procession, throwing down the images, tearing up
the scrolls, dancing on the priests and anything else that might express that general view. I can understand his saying, "Your croziers are bosh, your candles are bosh, your statues and scrolls and relics and all the rest of it are bosh." But in what conceivable
frame of mind does he rush in to select one particular scroll of the scriptures of this one particular group (a scroll which had always belonged to them and been a part of their hocus-pocus, if it was hocus-pocus); why in the world should the man in the street say that one particular scroll was not bosh, but was the one and only truth by which all the other things were to be condemned? Why should it not be as superstitious to worship the scrolls as the statues, of that one particular procession? Why should it not be as reasonable to preserve the statues as the scrolls, by the tenets of that particular creed? To say to the priests, "Your statues and
scrolls are condemned by our common sense," is sensible. To say, "Your statues are condemned by your scrolls, and we are going to worship one part of your procession and wreck the rest," is not sensible from any standpoint, least of all that of the man in the
street.]

Richard said...

Kevin,

Pascal's Wager

Thank you for your blog. I have just come across it today and several of your posts have been helpful to me.

I am in the process of trying to figure out how to "come out" of fundamental christianity, having be in for several years. John MacArthur's "The Battle for the Beginning" started the ex-christian process for me (young/old earth, creation/evolution).

I have read and appreciated your posts on Pascal's Wager, fear of hell and meaning of life. I have struggled with this and for me I think that now am satisfied with these issues in a similar way you are. However my "coming out" struggle is for my believing wife and four children (ages 22-28). All are born again believers.

It seems to me very much like the scene in the movie "Matrix" when Neo is given the choice of pills: continue living in a nice fake world or waking to a perhaps more harsh reality. But how do I "come out" with out the strong possibility of forcing them to swallow the reality pill that I have? Is it fair for me to take away their hope in "life after death" and perhaps worse, condeming them to hell if I am wrong? For me the deed is done in that I can no longer believe the Bible is God's word, knowing what I know now.

It has been hard to live in the closet and I want to come out in a good way that will maintain my family relationships. My wife (still a strong believer) knows about my struggles but thinks that it will devestate the children (possible loose their salvation) and very very strongly wants me to stay in the closet.

I wonder if you or some of your readers can offer thoughts on this.

Richard in Oklahoma

Rosanne said...

Hey Richard,

What is it that you 'know now' that has led you to no longer believe the Bible is God's word?

Rosy

Richard said...

Rosie,

Thanks for the question. In a nut shell, I believe that the earth is very old and that man has decended from common ancestors with other animals. The "know now" is that I have not been able to reconcile this, theologically, with the Bible. I know that there are many mainstream denominations that don't have trouble with this but for me it has boiled down to the credibility and authority of the Bible as God's inerrant Word to man. I have been involved with a fundamentalist church and have this nearly literal view of inspiration that says God had a somewhat tight control of the writing.

I think I agree with John MacArthur as he explained in his book "The Battle for the Beginning": if the earth is old or man evolved from other animals, then fundamental interpetaiton of the Bible is wrong.

Richard

Rosanne said...

Hey Richard,

I can't say I have read "The Battle for the Beginning" but I think I will.

When speaking of the "credibility and authority of the Bible as God's inerrant Word to man" remember that the median used was man. In this way God revealed his purpose to man, man than communicated what was revealed to him using the tools given (or one might say developed) - oral and written communication bound by language and words.

While we may require guidance in certain areas the study of the bible is a personal one. Like eating a banana you must peel the skin off first, while others can help you do this (ministers, historians etc) eating its flesh is something only you can do if you want to be filled. One must gain knowledge and have the desire to research to be able to put things into context and understand the culture of the day (the skin) so that the true spirit of what is meant can be revealed (the flesh). The key objective is a true relationship with the Divine.

However one decides to interpret the ‘breakdown’ on ‘The Beginning’ one thing remains, it is the work of God, however we choose to understand the details of that working. ‘The Battle for the Beginning’ is no doubt a discussion regarding time interpretation? The Rose does not instantly become a flower. It first takes the form of a seed endowed with the ability to flower as its purpose. So at what point is it a Rose? The moment the seed is created at an atomic level? Or the moment it is fully developed in all its glory for all to see? It is what it is, irrelevant of the discussion of time and the different levels of understanding each individual has on this process. With the realisation that the world was round not flat we didn’t abandon the belief in the essential truths that we eat and breath, we simply adjusted our understanding to bring it inline with the new understanding.

The bible is a tool meant to speak personally to us. You might listen to a friend or a minister and be inspired but there will always be a need for you to study the bible for yourself to make sure you agree with what their take on the bible is. I hope that you will go back to the basics of valid research, make sure you have the best translation of the bible in hand, remember you are studying history so have a tool ready to dig deeper when you come across something that doesn’t fit well or doesn’t make sense (Hebrew translator on line). Remember if something doesn’t rest well with your spirit it maybe because a vital piece of knowledge is missing, so get a clear understanding of what is meant using research and prayer. (An interesting one is people’s incorrect interpretation of ‘hell’ being eternal burning – but that’s another story).

I think one of our biggest problems is that we quite happily go to church and listen to a ministers take on the bible and swallow what is said hook line and sinker without follow-up research. Belief isn’t a political party you don’t just tow the line. It’s not wrong to disagree. But you don’t ‘chuck the baby out with the bath water’ either. The more knowledge you have the more discerning you are. Knowledge is freedom.

People like to identify themselves with different groups like ‘Fundamentalist Christian’, ‘Orthodox Christian’ or ‘Ex-Christian’ but at the end of the day we are who we are. And when it comes to fellowship you choose those who agree with your ideals whether it is within a Church or outside of one. Salvation is a matter of the heart not affiliation.

I like your ‘Matrix’ analogy but remember that there are more than two outcomes. You can withdraw from something you disagree with and continue your study for truth and relay this to your Children when you feel it is right. You can continue within the fundamentalist fellowship and agree to disagree on some issues because the issues under discussion are not deciding points of salvation. You can take your time to pinpoint and formulate what exactly you believe and seek those out who are of similar understanding for you to fellowship with. The point is ‘Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house’. Acts 16:31. Simple. You have nothing to fear. Change can be a positive enriching time for yourself and for your family.

Rosy

noordwyk said...

Hi Kevin

Great work on this blog -- I really enjoy the interaction that is happening here.

Went through a very similar experience as you, and empathise with your process. It is a brave thing to stand up and question things to find the truth!

I'll be following your blog in more detail, but keep up the good work... perhaps we'll chat some time.


Kind regards,
Johan

Richard said...

Hey Rosy,

Thank you for your post. You have some interesting points & I appreciate your thoughts.

Richard

Anonymous said...

Hey man

Ever thought about islam as a choice of religion?

Look beyond the headlines and think for yourself.
try this book
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Islam-Destiny-Man-Charles-Eaton/dp/0946621470/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217894450&sr=8-1

Anonymous said...

Hooray for you! It feels so good to know that there is someone else out there like me! I am so sick of the constant condemnation and guilt shoved at me by Christians. Evidently God is nothing more than a barbaric, evil tyrant who disrespects the beliefs of others and just wants to send people to hell anyways.

Kudos to you my friend.

Joseph said...

Hi Kevin

I'd be interested in your thoughts on this letter written by Pope John Paul II, http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_15101998_fides-et-ratio_en.html

Feel free to drop me an email; dragoon@stonedragon.co.za

Keep well - J

Melinda - USA said...

I have read a couple of your entries and have been thinking.
I have only two observations/thoughts:
(1) Christianity isn't merely believing God exists. Many people who believe God exists are not Christians. Christianity is about having a personal "relationship" with God - actually "knowing" Him. If you have a relationship with someone you could never deny their existence. For example, I have friends who live in China, some in Chile, and other far off places. Even though I haven't communicated with some of them in a while I do not deny their existence. I met them, and then our relationship grew to friendship. I "know" them and know they exist even though I haven't seen them in a while. I would have to be crazy to say that since I haven't seen them in a while that they do not exist and have never existed. So technically you would not have been a "Christian" if you didn't have a personal relationship with God (met Him and grew to have a friendship with Him). Conversely, if you really had a relationship with him you could not later deny His existence altogether.
(2) Just ask God to show you Himself - really, sincerely ask. He wants to reveal Himself to you, and if you will ask with an open heart and mind, He will do it. You seem to be a really open-minded guy, so go ahead and try it. Also ask Him to let you "know" Him. I really sense from what I have read that you sincerely want to know the truth.

God is not afraid of honest and sincere questioning, and He doesn't try to hide the answers from us. Just ask...

Also, here is the link to a great little video and a site with lots of questions and answers - http://www.juststopandthink.com/

Actually, I think you know most of the "answers". You just need to meet God and have a friendship with Him. (Please watch the video anyway, I think it's great.)

God bless you!

Melinda - USA said...

Hey!
Me again...

After I posted I read some of the other replies you have received. Oh, my goodness!! Those posts from the people who claim to be "Christians" were absolutely HORRIBLE! No wonder people can't stand Christians! UGGHHHH!! That just makes me sick!
I am a Christian.
I certainly don't want to be lumped into the group with them.
Being a Christian is not about slamming people who do not agree with you. Being a Christian is about knowing God and actually having a relationship with Him. Showing His LOVE to others comes naturally after that.
I don't even understand all that stuff they were spewing at you or what their motivation would be, but I do know that it is not love. (It was so awful that I had to quit reading it. It was literally making my stomach hurt. Some of them sound really nuts!)
I apologize that some people act that way towards those who disagree with them, and I just want to reiterate that they are not showing you or anyone else who God is. I think the reason many people reject God is because they have met so many people like that who claim to be representing God.

Since you grew up with a Christian background I am sure you heard that "God is Love". That is still true. Sorry that you are being attacked by people who don't seem to know that. I am sorry that anyone has had to put up with that. I wish there was something that I could do or say so that no one ever had to experience that from people who call themselves Christians.
Forget about them. God does love you - He IS love. Don't take my word for it, though. Find out from Him.

Bottom line: I realize there is no argument that I or anyone else can present that will convince you of anything. You are obviously a really smart guy and have done your research. As I said before, you know the "answers". "Knowing" God for yourself is all that's left. He said you will find Him when you seek Him with all your heart. Stop trying to get the answers from other people. Go to the Source.
Ball's in your court...

zeekeekee said...

Hi Kevin

This is my third attempt at rewriting a long comment - blogger is just not my friend today!

I'm so relieved to come across your blog as I was searching for support during deconversion. I wanted to know that there were people out there who felt the same way I did. For 3 years I gave myself to a god who never kept a single promise, and doubt plagued me. As a thinker, it was difficult to deal with "God's ways are not our ways, and does the pot question the potter etc." as the only answer available to the questions that carry such weight, the most important ones. And being chastised for thinking that I could dare to think that I deserved to know, being the sinful human I am. Or that in time things would be revealed to me, through prayer and 'relationship' with god.
I was so excited to see that you are also South African. I went to a big evangelical/apostolic church for 3 years and now, 2 weeks after realising that i really am no longer a christian, it's been painful as I've come to terms with the possibility of losing some of the people I've dearly loved because of what I don't believe!
Still trying to work my way through where I stand, so that I can be prepared to meet query with a solid answer, so I am happy to find that I agree with all the reasons you left, and embrace the freedom I have to be a good person without the threat of punishment or reward hanging above my head, but because I'm so joyful to have this opportunity in life to love because I can.
It's been difficult trying to come to grips with what this means with regards to certain relationships, but when I lie in bed at night and look out through the window across from me, I have that same feeling of peace and wonder that I used to attribute to a god for 3 years - but this time, I feel joy thats so pure and lovely. Freedom is a wonderful thing.
Thanks for the blog, I will be reading on.
nessie

Anonymous said...

The format here doesn't produce a clear timeline, so I have no idea whether I'm responding to a live thread or a dead one. But I've followed this blog and several similar ones for some time without commenting, primarily because I wanted to see what shape the various dialogues between ex-Christians and active Christians would take.

I must say I am struck by the lack of respect the Christians on this page show ex- and/or non-Christians. At the same time, the lack of respect seems unintentional -- and that, I think, says something. The arguments all seem to head in similar directions:
1) Kevin left Christianity because he misunderstands the Bible;
2) Kevin left Christianity because he never encountered true Christianity;
3) Kevin left Christianity because he never connected properly with God through Jesus;
4) Kevin's reasons aren't that important -- we need to pray for him.

No matter how gentle or well-intentioned these comments are, they all rest on the assumption that Kevin and others in his position are wrong in some absolute sense, that he has made these choices because he has somehow missed or neglected the objective Truth. It's a bit like the argument adults frequently use on children: hey, you may think you understand, but when you grow up and see what's really going on, etc. It's not necessarily hostile, but it's awfully condescending and it impedes dialogue more than it encourages it.

These conversations would be more productive if some believer would, just once, say, "This is my take on God/Jesus/the Bible/faith...but you know what? I may be wrong."

I remain cautiously optimistic.

GG said...

I wish Anonymous 5:50pm had signed his/her name. I truly appreciate that comment as another ex-Christian who has been told the same 4 versions of why my journey out of Christianity was misguided.

I've added your blog to my blogroll, Kevin, and I hope to follow your posts. You and I may have similar thoughts and experiences, and I'd love to know more!

Anonymous said...

Dear readers

Would you please read my recent posting on the same issue at
http://whyidonotleavechristianity.blogspot.com/?
Your any comments would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much in advance.

With love and respect,
Truth Finder

Russell Warne said...

Hi Kevin. I hope you read this far down and this far back in your blog archive! It's good to read some of your viewpoints, and I'll contine to do so with interest. I am a christian and believe in God, but I undersand why many such as yourself would not, as I would be in the same boat had I not decided to put a decision of faith ahead of my many questions and misgivings. It's an interesing process as I'm a natural skeptic and am trained (originally....) as a biologist. Take a look at opensourcetheology.net as you may find it interesting if you have not already been there. Anyway, I will continue to check out your posts and look forward to some dialog.

Mel said...

Interesting blog. I am a Christian, not at all religious and in fact rebel against much of conventional Christianity. But believe I do. Sometimes I wish I didn't, that I could un-believe what I know to be true but I can't. It makes my life harder, the spirit of God is often in contradiction to the spirit of man. I do believe the church has much to answer for and the damage that Christians do in the name of Christ, extremely sad. I do not enjoy the hypocritical bigotry and self-righteousness of too many believers but the love of God, the awesomeness of creation, its just undeniable for me. One day we will all know the truth, for now I take my chances in believing Him to be true.

a servant of Jesus said...

Hello, you don't know me, but I happened to notice your site and was curious, so I read a few snippets. Is it possible that you have been hurt by those who say they are Christians, but their life shows they don't even care about Christ? And, is it possible, that you might not understand what Jesus was talking about in Matthew 13 about how to tell the difference between saved and unsaved? One more question, if I may: Is it also possible that you came to Jesus with your own conditions on the relationship, and never actually became a new creation, as He describes in 2nd Corinthians 5:17?...

I hope these questions don't bother you, but I do hope they get you thinking. And the reason I ask them is because up until 7 years ago, I thought I was a follower of Christ, but I refused to submit to His control in some areas of my life, and the results were clear - I was not a follower of Christ. But, that all changed 7 years ago, when God got my attention, showed me I had only half-committed to following Him, and the difference has been like night and day. 7 years ago, I became a new creation, one who actually desired to please Him, and wanted to know what He said, so I could know if I was pleasing Him. And since then I have talked to many people who are right where I was, and God has allowed me to show them Scriptures that He has been explaining to me and teaching me in and through....

I say all of that, to leave you with this thought ~ if you see you are like I was, and you want to understand more of what Jesus Christ's message was, I encourage you to seriously study Matthew, Mark, Luke and John for yourself. And, you are also welcome to email me with your questions and/or comments.

Eternity is a long time. Make sure you have the right answer. I don't have the right answers, but I know the One who does, and would be glad to talk to you, whenever you want. ~ your friend, a servant/life-slave of Jesus,
Steven
Steven.H3@gmail.com

Laura said...

I am enjoying reading your blog! You write your insights very well!

(And Steven, may I simply refer you to de-conversions list of Convenient Categories: http://de-conversion.com/2008/03/27/convenient-categories/

If I had a penny for every time someone asked me if I left the faith because I was hurt, I wouldn't have to be worrying about those student loans!)

Anders Branderud said...

Laughing Boy wrote: “a) take the view that words mean certain things and not just anything you want them to,

b) read the whole Bible and not just the parts you like,
(..)
Pretty much every Christian claims to base their beliefs on the Bible (except for some liberals and emergents who take an inconsistently agnostic view of scripture). That is the very reason that they can be challenged, because if you take a close look at both (scriptures and beliefs), they may not quite line up.

Yes, the Bible is, in some places, a difficult book. It's ancient and it's been translated out of the original languages. But it is not incomprehensible. Nor is it proper to say that there are equally valid but contrary interpretations. You can't do that with any other book. You can't do that with the Bible. ”

My reply: It is written in Torah that any prophet who adds mitzwot (commandments) or removes mitzwot from Torah is a false prophet. (See Devarim (Deuteronomy) 13:1-6)

So if Ribi Yehoshua ha-Mashiakh (the Messiah) from Nazareth or his followers contradicted Torah in their teachings, then according to Torah one shouldn’t follow their teachings. But there is no historical fact that implies that Ribi Yehoshua or his followers taught anything in contradiction to Torah.

Since you are a Christian (and to all other Christians reading this) I think that the website Netzarim will be of interest to you. It contains logical and scientific research, previously unknown to most Christians, about Ribi Yehoshua (ha-Mashiakh, the Messiah) and what he and his followers taught. It is an essential read to learn about his teachings!

To Kevin and all atheists and agnostics: In the blog (my blog) bloganders.blogspot.com (in an article in the right menu) the existence of a Creator and His purpose of humankind is proved.

To you all:Have a nice weekend!!
Anders Branderud

Anonymous said...

Hi Kevin,

I have two questions: Have you ever read any Kierkegaard? and Are you familiar with the Eastern Orthodox Church?

Hope this finds you well.

James

Kevin Parry said...

Hi James

I haven't read any Kierkegaard's own work, although I've read references to him in other books.

And I'm not familiar with the teachings of the Eastern Orthodox Church, although I've heard about them too.

All the best
Kevin

Phil said...

Hello Kevin,

Your blog was a breath of fresh air after my latest bruising encounter with a Fundamentalist homophobe. I appreciate your honesty and your willingness of maintain a dialogue with where you've come from. Recently I was re-reading the splendid dialogue between Metropolitan Anthony and Marghanita Laski in Metropolitan Anthony's 'The Essence of Prayer'. What struck me about the conversation was a note of mutual respect, between believer and atheist. That respect is sadly lacking in the ill tempered, ignorant diatribes from both sides that I've come across this year. Mostly theism and atheism are viewed as polar opposites but I have come to see that there is a continuing between one and the other. How else would I understand John of the Cross for example? What is the 'dark night of the soul' if not a kind of atheism for God's sake. Well, I look forward to dropping into your blog from time to time.

Shalom,

Phil

Dan said...

Regarding why one leaves his Christian faith, for some it simply comes from studying the Bible, its sources, its contradictions, together with church history. For many of us, when we do that, we realize what we thought of as a rational foundation for our beliefs does not stand the test. Since, as many have said, we already were atheists regarding all other religions, the loss of belief in our final god leaves us atheists

_ Dan

Kevin Attard said...

Hello Kevin,

I somehow stubbled onto your blog, read some of your posts. And they reminded me of myself some ten years ago when I started to question the faith I was born into. What I was being taught (told) just didn't make senses to me, and a lot of my questions where simple not answered to my satisfaction. However, I didn't give up, after all, I thought someone must know the truth. Surely this place called Earth isn't one big giant mine field and it call comes down to plan old luck and blind faith. After a number of years looking into various religions etc. I quickly realised that they all have the same message and it only the outward practices that change. Outward practices which mean nothing. While looking into various Eastern Philosophies, I found http://www.rssb.org/ which taught you to seek the truth inside the body rather outside the body - and I have never looked back! http://sydneymeditationgroup.wordpress.com/
best regards
Kevin

vanessa said...

thank you so much for putting all of this out there for people like me to come along and discover!! i so need to connect with people with a story like this. thank you for sharing your journey and your thoughts!

Anonymous said...

Why not you look for the truth, pls read Quran before you make up your mind!

Anonymous said...

Why not checkout other religions and you might find helpful or you might find the real truth, more than 95 per cent believe somehow there is a God and believe in a faith, I'm pretty sure out of this %, one group must have the undenable truth. Therefore, if you have do a good research with a good intention you might find the real truth! Good luck, may the true God shows you the righteous path. Peace!

Anonymous said...

Good for you for using your brain to figure these things out on your own as opposed to being a sheeple and blindly following along.

I felt compelled to comment because I find it amazing that people will forever try to pahtologiize you for not believing in what they believe in or attempt to convert you to their brand of religion.

What I can't wrap my mind around is why people insist that you MUST have a belief in god altogether. I also don't understand why people think that if you lack a belief in god or religion that somehow that makes you an immoral person. In my eyes you do not need god or religion to be a good, loving person. I believe that humans are inherently human and are born inherently good. I believe that people are products of their environment and it is life experiences that change people into well not so loving human beings.

I also find the comments about afterlife and eternity rather absurd and amusing. It's totally fine with me if you want to believe in such things. But if someone doesn't prescribe to your belief's about the afterlife or eternity there's no point in using them as a threat about the eternal damnation they'll supposedly experience. Besides, how can ANY human really know what happens after a person dies? For those preaching the evils of hell, how do you know FOR CERTAIN that said person who doesn't believe as you do is going to this place in the afterlife? Are you going to be there watching them get sent to hell? No!! There's NO REAL WAY for any human to cast judgement about how someone is going to spend their so-called afterlife if such a thing even exists. If you feel pain and suffering in "knowing" that said person who doesn't believe as you do is going to hell or what have you, that's your problem not the other person's. Your guilt tripping them or crying or praying for them is not going to change how they think or believe about certain things. So stop with the threats or pitying about going to hell or meeting eternal demise. If believing these things makes you feel good about yourself, well good for you. Leave me out of it!!

The other thing I don't get is why people find the idea of non-existence after death (or to pro-lifers not existing as a human on this planet) so terrifying and appalling. I personally do not fear in any way shape or form death or not existing after death. Nor am I terrified or appalled about the possibility of never having existed as a human at all. If I don't exist then I don't exist and that's the end of it. I wouldn't know otherwise because I wouldn't exist. I wouldn't/won't have a body, brain, neurons and receptors to enable me to feel or process any emotions. Why is this idea so scary to others? If this life is all there is then, as someone else posted, I should take it in for all its worth be it good or bad before its gone.

My point is whatever it is you believe in, good for you. As long as it works for you and makes you a better person more power to you. No one has the right to tell you your belief's are right or wrong. That is up to you to determine. If at anytime you want to change them, go for it. Part of the beauty of being alive is being able to experience the evolution of your ideas and having the freedom to change them as you see fit. And that is something no one can ever take away from you no matter how hard they try.

Peace and love be with you always!

Leon said...

Part1
------
Kevin;

I'd like to lay out the path of an ex Christian and address the issues of familial rejection and means to sooth the minds of those around you that knew you as religious.

Forgive me if I am wrong; but the replies to your original post can be broken into 3 categories. 1) Those who are christians (c not capitalized on purpose) and want to call you back, 2) Those who are of other faiths and want to recruit you, 3) Those who support you. This classification doe not consider those who wish you still were a chritian; but damned you for your denomination.

I suppose this was a long way of classifying myself. I am an ex-christian who was raised to be blind to denomination as long as we were unified in "Christ".

I saw military service in the 80's. As a young man I have never fired a weapon on anger and as a typical "early days" computer nerd I never dreamed that I would be angry at anyone but the school bully.

However this changed in a heartbeat when shortly after my JL training I commanded a troop of soldiers in places, not relevant, under conditions, not human, to perform tasks not morally justifiable under any conditions; but war.

Leon said...

Part2
-----
It was not the hate that grew in my own heart, but the hate in the enemies eyes that brought me to doubt. To clarify, on the border neither I nor my men fired the first shot. We were a bunch of youngsters who was shot upon and answered fire with fire. A bunch of students fresh out of varsity on the edge of being killed.

At this time we preyed a lot. Asked for forgiveness atonement or favors. It was soon clear that none of this would be granted. It was war, no quarter given or asked.

It didn't take very long for us "intellectuals" (we were in a special unit) to realize to not trust anyone but each other. People in our own rank even broke down and got others killed though action or the lack thereof.

It wasn't long until we trusted only ourselves and a select few other individuals. This was our salvation; the reason we still breath. God was a memory and it was through the actions of the "godless" that those of lesser intellect remained breathing.

No it's not a boast, it was a simple reality. We who have lost our faith kept those without the reasoning power to trust in their own intellects alive.

That is how I became for the lack of a better term; an atheist (non-believer). I prefer "religiously self reliant".

As you can imagine my family did not take this well. They are devout.

Anonymous said...

Part3
-----
To maintain relations with them I did not directly attack their beliefs, which I now have realized were archaic means to try to understand what you can not emotionally accept; I rather just subtly withdrew from the ceremonies and rituals they expected from me. Which helps is that I'm a published Author, be it of no significant import; but reputable none the less and I have written a short story "In the name of god", which highlight the atrocities committed in the name of the chritian god and though that introduced them to the concept of taking responsibility not only for your destiny; but also for your past action, influenced by others or not and the decisions it may lead to in future.

Pointing to Niche, "The mind is a world of its own capable of making heaven from hell or a hell from heaven." I convinced them that my lack of belief was not insanity...

Unfortunately to a true christian, that is all you can do... Prove you are still sane....

That really brings the common definition of sanity into question. We who don't have an invisible unrevealed ghost friend who could; but wouldn't fix any and all our problems at a stroke; must prove to those who do: that we have all our faculties while we are studying quantum anomalies and universal atomic weight indescribable as to identify the birth of the universe, have to answer to those with the "answer": that was clearly a function of hereditary programming or hypnosis though methods such as NLP - Neuro-Linguistic Programming and other (including deprivation) methods of brainwashing (recognized because taught to us in the army in order to convert or subjugate), that we weren't mad.

Clear case of the emperor's clothes.

Isha Merdeka said...

You right Kevin, cause Christianity has ended since Islam, like Jew since Christianity. I hope you back to Islam cause everybody born as muslim.
And Kingdom of God, the dreams of every Christians who has been enjoyed by Muslims.
Please visit http://ishamerdeka.blogspot.com/

tradermark.news said...

Hi Kevin,

I am a new Ex-Believer. Maybe for those who are considering axing their beliefs, I am thinking of foundering "Christian Anonymous"

2012 is my year of freedom...lol...was in the christian wilderness for 30yrs...for a religion that preaches love and freedom (To set the captives free and all that) it enslaves more than anything.

To be honest, I have seen probably the whole works of christianity more than anyone else...baptise in spirit and in water. Yes i speak in tongues. ..prayed for a chicken poxed roomate, felt the power going through my right hand, i mean power !....seen demon manifestation...fasted 3 days...etc etc...

But when it comes to the real thing, God wasnt there and didnt show up.

And soon I couldnt differentiate between Dr Phil and Pastor Phil...
Only difference is Pastor Phil quotes some bible verses and make it relevant to christians....

Anyway...Good on you !.....

Its been 5 months now, and its 5 months of liberation ! Vive la Life !

Miss Awesome said...

WOW! I know that you can't experience God and forget about Him! When you experience God's love, that reference of unconditional love never leaves you! Kevin, I can see in your blogs that you have NOT forgotten God's love because you see it everyday and are constatntly reminded of it! That's GREAT!

I pray that you find your way back to God! He is waiting with wide open arms to welcome you back! He is with you ALL THE TIME, He has not left you even during this time!

Stay blessed! I enjoy your blog!


Kind Regards
Gaopalelwe Laka aka Miss Awesome:)