tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17732427.post7216739575725552373..comments2023-06-23T10:26:21.277+02:00Comments on Memoirs of an ex-Christian: Raising children in a atheist/Christian marriage?Kevinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16752824290056143050noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17732427.post-28160443859486710082012-06-02T02:02:31.599+02:002012-06-02T02:02:31.599+02:00Interesting the way MichaelGormley and a39greenway...Interesting the way MichaelGormley and a39greenway think that building a wall of Bible references somehow is rational argument for proving their point. To me it's quite the opposite. It shows that they cannot think for themselves. <br /><br />The Bible is nothing but writing of ancient goat herders. There is nothing supernatural about it. And children should be taught that while there may be some truth and wisdom contained within, there is also much ugliness and immorality. It is best that they be taught to be independent learners and seekers of knowledge that can be verified. That is the best gift you can give to your children.Thin-icehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10395122483673080901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17732427.post-40425575846233701972012-05-28T12:10:06.441+02:002012-05-28T12:10:06.441+02:00Dear waypastdue,
You hit on the point that I have...Dear waypastdue, <br />You hit on the point that I have started searching for because I need help getting the communication skills that you and your husband must surely practice when discussing what to say to your youngest without drawing battle lines.<br /><br />I have been an atheist since my teens and am in a long distance relationship with a girl of Mormon upbringing for a year now. It may look silly being worried at this stage but when so much effort to stay together is being made I want to make sure that we are not wasting each other's time. She is a sweet gentle girl that does not attend services but is a believer. At the beginning I attempted to talk to her about faith, it resulted with her putting a lid on the whole discussion because it hurt her. I do realise that back then we started at two different places, I was ready to debate with distilled logic and she never had the question raised in her life. Now, further in I don't mind having the disconnect on the most important question but we must meet somewhere in between if we were ever having a child... How do I 1- Ask for a comprehensive list of ideas off her so that we can talk about what I can let my child hear (in church) and what I simply cannot allow... fear, creationism etc.... she is a girl of science and of theist belief but I cannot get her to think about/talk about the dogmas that she may allow to be taught to her kids. She has loyalty to her upbringing and I fully understand but I we will need to communicate about the specifics soon... after all, her time is more valuable. 2- How did you communicate the differences in beliefs to your child when asnwering inquisitive questions? When two people genuienly believe that their own answer is the right one, where can you meet when it comes to the child that you are responsible for. I feel like we have a long way to go and I don't even know how to start getting there without provoking a pained deflection from her. Thank you for any advice and apologies for poor layout-phoneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17732427.post-39273457514037518822012-05-27T22:54:20.735+02:002012-05-27T22:54:20.735+02:00This was a very interesting post. My favorite part...This was a very interesting post. My favorite part was Cori's response...I am in a long-term cross-faith relationship (he is Atheist, I am Christian), and only in the past few weeks has the concern really come to mind. I wasn't worried at first, but I think I have found my faith is maybe more important to me than I realized. I am especially concerned about how we would raise our children. He is very supportive of my faith, and says that we could raise our children Christian with an understanding of all faiths. He also talks a lot about morals...and that having good morals and values in a family doesn't just happen because of Christianity, there are other ways to get there. It doesn't stop my stress and concern, though!<br /><br />Not that searching your problems on Google will solve them, but this was a post that certainly put me on the right track. So, thanks to both of you, especially Cori.Lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17732427.post-58418013287478550902011-09-21T12:49:21.783+02:002011-09-21T12:49:21.783+02:00I love this guys logic and perspective, it shows g...I love this guys logic and perspective, it shows great ignorance.<br /><br />(For some strange reason, these angry and very unlikable people have decided that if they deny the existence of God in their mind, then therefore God does not exist. <br /><br />It’s as stupid as saying “I do not believe that the Grand Canyon exists, so therefore it doesn’t exist.” )<br /><br />How about we turn that on it's head just for a laugh.<br /><br />For some reason these people think that just because they believe in the existence of god in their mind, that he must really exist?<br />It's as stupid as saying i believe there is an imaginary bridge across the widest part of the grand canyon, even though no one has ever seen it. Would take a lot of blind faith to walk across it!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17732427.post-30415094640625656262011-05-18T20:49:16.047+02:002011-05-18T20:49:16.047+02:00It's very nice to have found your blog. It sou...It's very nice to have found your blog. It sounds like we have a lot in common. I'm coming up on 5 years of marriage, no kids yet. My wife and I were raised Christian, but about 2 years ago I began to doubt and am now more atheistic than Christian. My wife is still a very devout believer. We have been struggling with what it will look like to raise kids. She'll be taking the kids to church while I stay home I suppose. But I want to have an equal voice and not simply let our kids have a narrow sphere of influence like I was raised with. Every time they get home from Sunday school, I feel like I'll want to reiterate that "Daddy thinks the Bible stories are make-believe" so that I'm not deferring the right to shape my children's views to random Sunday school teachers. I get frustrated, I think what I really need here is some perspective, which your post helps provide. I look forward to perusing your previous posts too, looks like good stuff.David Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12104368919315305944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17732427.post-70359854097649840762010-10-18T20:06:36.991+02:002010-10-18T20:06:36.991+02:00As an ex-missionary, as our two sons grew to be te...As an ex-missionary, as our two sons grew to be teenagers, I sat them down and basically said this:<br /><br />"Whatever you choose as life's core values and beliefs, choose them because you have examined them thoroughly and found them to be the most rational. Don't believe in something, such as Christianity, just because someone else does, or even because your mother and I do. Make it your own, don't inherit it from other people."<br /><br />When they started asking awkward questions in Youth Group, and got superficial replies, or even accusations of being "rebellious", they soon made their choice and stopped attending church. A few years later, my wife and I also stopped, and eventually "converted" into non-theists.<br /><br />I think a non-christian and christian partners in a marriage can agree that children should choose for themselves, without being brainwashed in a church. But it is crucial that children be raised to be able to think independently, and NEVER be discouraged from asking questions. No question should ever be forbidden by intellectually honest parents. If the questions are too threatening or scary for the christian parent, then their faith is faulty and frail.Thin-icehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10395122483673080901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17732427.post-25066652174772501242010-07-22T19:42:33.805+02:002010-07-22T19:42:33.805+02:00BTW: I think the book titled "Parenting Beyon...BTW: I think the book titled "Parenting Beyond Belief" includes some discussion of families with mixed-faith parents. I have lent it to a friend, so I haven't read it myself yet, but still, I feel confident in recommending it. ;) (Contributions from many authors/thinkers, Dale McGowan pulled it all together.Hugohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07322023196914655185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17732427.post-74827056638249525932010-06-21T17:09:12.183+02:002010-06-21T17:09:12.183+02:00Kevin writes: After all of this, it will not both...Kevin writes: <b>After all of this, it will not bother me in the slightest if my children finally decide to become Christians, atheists, or anything else. What they become will eventually be their choice, and I think the goal as parents is to give them enough information so that they can make a choice that is well informed.<br /><br />What do you think?</b><br /><br /><br />Hi Kevin,<br /><br />What comes to mind for me is that in theory it may seem easy to say that you wouldn't mind your children chosing Christianity. When it comes to the actual practical application of that belief, you might change your mind or you may find it not as easy as it all seems now. Do you know what I mean? <br /><br />I'm just saying, it's really difficult to know, until you know. *smile* <br /><br />I sense a great ease between you and Cori and your acceptance of one another, and I think you'd be great parents. Here's the thing though Kevin and even Cori...imagine that your child choses hardcore fundamentalist Christianity? Legalism to the core. You may love them. Allow them to chose their path, yes. But not be bothered by it one bit...not likely.<br /><br />We just don't know what the future holds. <br /><br />Spoken as a child who did chose the fundamentalist path. :-(<br /><br />~ Zoe ...Zoehttp://acomplicatedsalvationreborn.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17732427.post-3112976272448312462010-06-19T16:14:12.524+02:002010-06-19T16:14:12.524+02:00To WayPastDueToo, Nikeyo, Dar and The Writerly Ath...<b>To WayPastDueToo, Nikeyo, Dar and The Writerly Atheist</b><br />Thank you so much for sharing your experiences. I wrote this post with the full realization that both Cori and I speak on this topic with some amount of naiveté; after all, we don’t have kids. I’m sure as parents you can start out with great ambitions, but the actual work of raising kids can be complex. I admire your fortitude, and both Cori and I have learnt from your comments.<br /><br /><b>CRL wrote</b><br /><i>Keep in mind that in atheist-theist marriages, there are two answer keepers, keeping contradictory answers.</i><br /><br />I like your comment. I once heard that the learning process starts at the point when a person realizes a contradiction – something that doesn’t make sense in the context of what they already believe – and then they the question: why is there a contradiction? As a parent, I will be stifling my child’s development if I expose her to only one worldview. I will be withholding from her the tools of how to learn, and how to handle contradictions and difference that she will experience in the world out there.<br /><br /><b>Cobus wrote</b><br /><i>One thing that I'd like to add, and think we need to make part of the conversation surrounds rituals.</i><br /><br />This is a really insightful point. What would be an example of a ritual? I wonder if camping trips, family get-togethers, and holidays can be regarded as rituals. What do you think?Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16752824290056143050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17732427.post-45299740291762528222010-06-16T12:52:12.007+02:002010-06-16T12:52:12.007+02:00@ Kevin
WordPress has a wonderful "Spam"...@ Kevin<br /><br />WordPress has a wonderful "Spam" option that can come in so handy at times like these.<br /><br />I am signing out of this thread because it no comment policy rules are being honored.Sabio Lantzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12963476276106907984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17732427.post-82002958766310639482010-06-16T08:00:34.474+02:002010-06-16T08:00:34.474+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07940745178193985942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17732427.post-26806299843184795752010-06-16T07:44:44.702+02:002010-06-16T07:44:44.702+02:00Kevin Parry said..
The important point above, for ...Kevin Parry said..<br /><i>The important point above, for me at least, is exposing our children to different ways of thinking.</i><br /><br />When <b>thought</b> (<i>thinking</i>) realises that whatever it does any movement that it makes is disorder…..then there is silence.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07940745178193985942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17732427.post-47959220866479847222010-06-15T17:59:12.368+02:002010-06-15T17:59:12.368+02:00TTo Michael Gormley / daveg4g / a39greenway
One o...TTo Michael Gormley / daveg4g / a39greenway<br /><br />One of the main reasons why I started this blog was to provide a platform for mutual discussion and the exchange of ideas. I appreciate your participation on the comment section, but I’m afraid that by cutting and pasting large tracts of text in your comments, you might stifle any meaningful discussion taking place.<br /><br />I am loathe to turn on comment moderation, as I firmly believe that people should be free to write anything they like on my blog, provided that they respect the space of others. Over the years many visitors to this blog - atheist and theist alike - have show respect in the way they communicate: by writing concise comments; using their own words; keeping to the topic at hand; and writing with the intent of receiving a response. <br /><br />I look forward to your participation along these lines.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16752824290056143050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17732427.post-54582427116564897412010-06-15T17:05:44.787+02:002010-06-15T17:05:44.787+02:00CONTINUED...
Satan's church is the Synagogue ...<i>CONTINUED</i>...<br /><br />Satan's church is the Synagogue of Satan: Rev 2:9,3:9 <br /><br />11. The Holy Spirit is of the Lord: 1Sam 16:14 <br /><br />The evil spirit from the Lord: 1Sam 16:14 <br /><br /><b>Satan, attributes of (or lack of):</b> <br /><br />A. He is a <i>"created"</i> creature... This fact is stated twice in the context of Ezekiel's lament Ez 28:13,15. As a creature, created by God, Satan is limited in his operation and ability. <br /><br />1. Satan is not omniscient. He is limited with regard to wisdom. Satan knows only what God permits him to know. <br /><br />2. Satan is not omnipresent. He is limited with regard to location. He can function only in the places where God permits.<br /><br />3. Satan is not omnipotent. He is limited with regard to authority. He has no more power and authority than God allows. <br /><br />4. Satan is not eternal. He is limited with regard to creation. His longevity is God's provision for His own purposes in grace. <br /><br />5. Satan is not just. Because of his determined self-centeredness, he is limited with regard to fairness. He will never judge fairly. <br /><br />B. He was <i>"perfect in beauty"</i>... Ez 28:12 He was not the foolish character ridiculed today, with humanistic tendencies and weaknesses. <br /><br />C. He was the <i>"anointed" cherub</i>... Satan is not human, he is of the created order of angels, <i>"Cherubim",</i> Ez 1:4-25,10:1-22. As a created creature, he is responsible to serve God.<br /><br />D. He was <i>"without iniquity"</i>... He was <i>"...perfect in his ways"</i> until he exercised his will contrary to God's will.<br /><br />He chose iniquity, therefore, he is responsible for the consequences. <br /><br />E. He was created to serve God... Satan was appointed by God to a position at His eternal throne, rule, and government, Isa 2:2,14:13, Joel 3:17. <br /><br />In his rebellion against God, he lost that privilege forever. Concerning Satan's origin, remember, <i>"all things including Satan (as an angel) were created by the Lord Jesus Christ, and for Him..."</i> Col 1:16a39greenwaynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17732427.post-88194054011324066712010-06-15T17:03:55.758+02:002010-06-15T17:03:55.758+02:00CONTINUED...
Power of Darkness......................<i>CONTINUED...</i><br /><br /><i>Power of Darkness.......................Lk 22:53, Col 1:13 <br /><br />Prince of Devils...........................Mt 12:24 <br /><br />Prince of the Power of the Air......Eph 2:2 <br /><br />Prince of the Spirit......................Eph 2:2 <br /><br />Prince of this World.....................Jn 12:31,14:30,16:11 <br /><br />Roaring Lion...............................1Pet 5:8 <br /><br />Ruler of Darkness.........................Eph 6:12 <br /><br />Satan...........................................Lk 10:18, Rev 12:9,20:2 <br /><br />Sinner..........................................1Jn 3:8 <br /><br />Star that fell from Heaven.............Rev 9:1 <br /><br />The Beast.....................................Rev 20:4 <br /><br />The Destroyer..............................1Cor 10:10 <br /><br />The Devil.....................................Rev 12:9,20:2 <br /><br />The Enemy...................................Mt 13:28 <br /><br />The Evil One................................1Jn 5:18 <br /><br />The Red Dragon...........................Rev 12:3,9 <br /><br />The Serpent..................................Gen 3:1, 2Cor 11:3, Rev 12:9 <br /><br />The Spirit of Error.......................1Jn 4:6 <br /><br />The Tempter.................................1Thes 3:5 <br /><br />The Wicked One............................Mt 13:19, 1Jn 2:13 </i><br /><br /><b>Satan, the master imitator of Christ:</b><br /><br />The greatest imitator of Jesus Christ is a spiritual being called Lucifer or Satan (Rev. 12:9). <br /><br /><b>Examine the evidence:</b> <br /><br />1. Jesus is the <i>"King of Kings"</i>: Rev 19:16. <br /><br />Satan is <i>"king over all the children of pride"</i>: Job 41:25. <br /><br />2. Jesus is the <i>"Angel of the Lord"</i>: Gal 4:14. <br /><br />Satan appears as an <i>"Angel of Light"</i>: 2Cor 11:11-14.<br /><br />3. <i>"God is light,"</i> and in Him there is no darkness: 1Jn 1:5. <br /><br />Satan appears as an <i>"Angel of light"</i>: 2Cor 11:14. <br /><br />4. Jesus is <i>"God manifest in the flesh"</i>: 1Tim 3:16. <br /><br />Satan is the <i>"god"</i> of this world: 2Cor 4:4. <br /><br />5. Christ has a bride, who is a city: Rev 21:9. <br /><br />Satan has a bride, who is a city: Rev 17:1-9. <br /><br />6. Jesus cites the scripture in conflict: Lk 4:1-8. <br /><br />Satan cites the scripture in conflict: Lk 4:10. <br /><br />7. Christ preached 42 months: 3 passovers-Lk 3:23, Jn 2:13,5:1,6:4,12:1. <br /><br />The Beast preached 42 months: Rev 13:5. <br /><br />8. Christ means Anointed, Christos, Messiah: Act 4:26, Psa 2:2. <br /><br />Satan is <i>"anointed"</i> as a "christ": Mt 24:5. <br /><br />9. God desires worship: Jn 4:23-2. <br /><br />Satan desires worship: Mt 4:8-10. <br /><br />10. GOD's Church is the House of GOD: Isa 2:3, Heb 10:21a39greenwaynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17732427.post-33486647187524162282010-06-15T17:01:34.599+02:002010-06-15T17:01:34.599+02:00CONTINUED...
Satan, names of:
Abaddon (place of...<i>CONTINUED</i>...<br /><br /><b>Satan, names of:</b> <br /><br /><i>Abaddon (place of destruction)......Rev 9:11 <br /><br />Accuser........................................Rev 12:10 <br /><br />Adversary....................................1Pet 5:8 <br /><br />Ancient Serpent............................Rev 20:2 <br /><br />Angel of Light...............................2Cor 11:14 <br /><br />Angel of the Abyss.........................Rev 9:11 <br /><br />Angel of the Bottomless Pit............Rev 9:11 <br /><br />Angel(s) that Sinned......................2Pet 2:4 <br /><br />Apollyon (destroyer).....................Rev 9:11 <br /><br />Asmodeus.....................................Tob 3:8,17 <br /><br />Beelzebub.....................................Lk 11:15 <br /><br />Belial/Beliar.................................2Cor 6:15 <br /><br />Crafty One...................................Sir 11:29 <br /><br />Destroyer.....................................Wis 18:25, 1Cor 10:10 <br /><br />Devil...........................................Rev 12:12 <br /><br />Dragon........................................Rev 20:2 <br /><br />Evil Spirit from the Lord...............1Sam 16:14 <br /><br />Father of Lies..............................Jn 8:44 <br /><br />God of this World.........................2Cor 4:4 <br /><br />King............................................Rev 9:11 <br /><br />Lucifer........................................Isa 14:12, Rev 9:1-2 <br /><br />Lying Spirit.................................1King 22:22 <br /><br />Murderer....................................Jn 8:44</i>a39greenwaynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17732427.post-41308797022761571122010-06-15T16:58:11.677+02:002010-06-15T16:58:11.677+02:00I DO NOT EXIST....
Satan Does Exist,
Whether You ...<b>I DO NOT EXIST</b>....<br /><br /><b><i>Satan Does Exist,<br />Whether You Choose To Believe It Or Not</i></b>...<br /><br /><i>And He Is Patiently Waiting To Grab Us All</i>... <br /><br />Believe it or not, some churches really do teach that satan does not exist. I personally, have had contact with one that teaches this cruelest of all lies. <br /><br />This teaching is right up his alley as he would like us all to think he does not exist. <br /><br />Just think how much easier his job becomes if he can get people to believe it. <br /><br />I cannot imagine how anyone can ignore the fact that such evil does exist.<br /><br />In order for anyone to teach this blatant heresy, they have to deny many Bible verses, thus by doing so, they call GOD a liar. Here are just a few examples...<br /><br />But He said to them, <i>"I was watching Satan fall as lightning from heaven."</i> Luke 10:18<br /><br />Now Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan, and was led by the Spirit about the desert for forty days, being tempted the while by the devil. Luke 4:1-2<br /><br />And the Lord said, <i>"Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat."</i> Luke 22:31<br /><br />But Satan entered into Judas, surnamed Iscariot, one of the twelve. Luke 22:3<br /><br />But Peter said, <i>"Ananias, why has Satan tempted thy heart, that thou should lie to the Holy Spirit and by fraud keep back part of the price of the land?"</i> Acts 5:3<br /><br />Satan is mentioned by that name about 50 times in Holy Scripture, but yet, he has many more names also...a39greenwaynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17732427.post-5715119901407282942010-06-15T09:11:44.688+02:002010-06-15T09:11:44.688+02:00CONTINUED...
Still more depressingly, perhaps, ot...<i>CONTINUED</i>...<br /><br /><b><i>Still more depressingly, perhaps, other atheists sought to extinguish the fear of annihilation by stressing the generally miserable nature of human existence and thus encouraging detachment from life and even hopeful anticipation of death as a long awaited rest from the burden of living.</i></b><br /><br />Nicolas de Chamfort (1741-1794), for example, described life as an illness, for which death was the <b>'medication'</b>. <br /><br />According to this particular eighteenth century atheist, life was a prolonged agony from which death could liberate those unfortunate enough to have been born. <br /><br />Chamford himself acted on his beliefs by finally committing suicide.[7] Nor was Chamford a lone voice: in other respects optimistic atheists such as Diderot, Charles Pinot Duclos (1704-72) and Helvetius also in certain moments stressed the virtues of contemplating the relative wretchedness of existence in order to lessen the fear of annihilation.[8]<br /><br />In the despairing individualist atheism of <a href="http://www.investigatingatheism.info/pessimism.html" rel="nofollow">Schopenhauer, Stirner and von Hartmann </a>this strategy is taken a step further. <br /><br />Schopenhauer unequivocally describes the wretched nature of human existence and places his hope in the will to annihilation. <br /><br />It would have been better if human beings had never been born, but given that they have come into existence suicide remains a legitimate (or perhaps even desirable) option. <br /><br />In Hartmann's <i>Philosophy of the Unconscious</i> (1869) his profoundly dispiriting atheistic philosophy finishes with a call for the collective suicide of humanity. <br /><br />In his The <i>Self-Destruction of Chrisitanity</i> and the <i>Religion of the Future</i> (1874), Hartman predicts that humanity will come to a collective realisation of the futility of their atheistic fate, and choose to bring about their collective annihilation.[9] <br /><br />As Minois notes, in certain respects these forms of atheism can be regarded as the most complete atheisms, since they allow for no God replacements: nation, race, progress, democracy, etc. Existence is looked in the face and is judged futile.[10]<br /><br />In the twentieth century the celebrated British atheist <a href="http://www.investigatingatheism.info/whoswhotwentieth.html#russell" rel="nofollow">Bertrand Russell</a> would also draw something like these depressing conclusions, as does the contemporary atheistic writer John Gray in his influential (and disturbing) <i>Straw Dogs </i>(2002).[11] <br /><br />Up until the present the New Atheists have not engaged at any length with these issues, although it is to be expected that a fuller discussion concerning meaning and purpose will eventually be forthcoming as the controversies develop.<br /><br /><i>References<br />Gray, John. Straw Dogs: Thoughts on Humans and Other Animals. London: Granta Books, 2002. <br />Martin, Michael. Atheism : A Philosophical Justification. Philadelphia: Temple University Press, 1990. <br />Minois, Georges. Histoire de L'atheisme. La Fleche: Fayard, 1998.<br /><br />Bibliography<br /><br />Footnotes<br /><br />[1]↑Georges Minois, Histoire de L'atheisme (La Fleche: Fayard, 1998), 371. <br />[2]↑ Ibid., 369. <br />[3]↑ See Michael Martin, Atheism : A Philosophical Justification (Philadelphia: Temple University Press, 1990), 13-23. <br />[4]↑ Cited in Minois, Histoire, 363. <br />[5]↑ Ibid., 364. <br />[6]↑ Ibid., 365. <br />[7]↑ Ibid., 369. <br />[8]↑ Ibid., 370. <br />[9]↑ Ibid., 508. <br />[10]↑ Ibid. <br />[11]↑ John Gray, Straw Dogs: Thoughts on Humans and Other Animals (London: Granta Books, 2002).</i>daveg4gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17732427.post-21553856505461393392010-06-15T09:10:42.101+02:002010-06-15T09:10:42.101+02:00CONTINUED....
Nietzsche, like De Sade, also sugge...<i>CONTINUED</i>....<br /><br /><a href="http://www.investigatingatheism.info/whoswhonineteenth.html#nietzsche" rel="nofollow">Nietzsche</a>, like De Sade, also suggests a fundamental affirmation of the natural urges (the <b>'will to power'</b>) against Christian 'slave' morality as the proper response to the question of meaning. <br /><br />Nietzsche's affirmation of power and its exercise by the (by our standards) amoral superman creates meaning where it is not previously given. <br /><br />Similarly, <a href="http://www.investigatingatheism.info/nonmarxistatheisms.html" rel="nofollow">existentialists</a> such as <a href="http://www.investigatingatheism.info/whoswhotwentieth.html#sartre" rel="nofollow">Sartre</a> in the twentieth century affirm that human beings find themselves in a meaningless (<b>'absurd'</b>) world and need to create meaning and purpose in their lives in absolute freedom, since there is no pre-existent meaning or purpose to life.daveg4gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17732427.post-18654678039574412772010-06-15T09:07:59.118+02:002010-06-15T09:07:59.118+02:00CONTINUED...
But many atheists - particularly tho...<i>CONTINUED</i>...<br /><br />But many atheists - particularly those most preoccupied with the consequences of atheistic belief for <i>individuals</i> as opposed to societies - regarded appeals to such survival substitutes as ultimately a form of self- deception, and sought other solutions to the problem. <br /><br />Étienne de Senancour (1770-1846), for example, regarded the only solution to the problem of mortality in healing humans from the 'illness' of wishing for immortality. <br /><br />According to Senancour, one can only suppress this fear by applying all one's energy to the present life.[5]<br /><br /><a href="http://www.investigatingatheism.info/whoswhoeighteenth.html#sade" rel="nofollow">De Sade</a> took this idea of immersion in the immediacy of present life a step further. <br /><br />Dismissing the wish for immortality as a contemptible urge, he advocated complete absorption in sensuality, the repeated pleasure of sex, inflicting suffering and even death, as a means of extinguishing the fear of mortality through forgetfulness in the fullness of the senses.[6]daveg4gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17732427.post-50247823127863244972010-06-15T08:59:37.584+02:002010-06-15T08:59:37.584+02:00CONTINUED.....
Some atheists have taken a relative...<i>CONTINUED</i>.....<br />Some atheists have taken a relatively upbeat attitude to the consequences for meaning and purpose of atheist beliefs. The eighteenth century atheist <a href="http://www.investigatingatheism.info/whoswhoeighteenth.html#mett" rel="nofollow">La Mettrie</a>, for example, proposed that the fear of death arose only from the religious belief in afterlife punishments, and claimed that thoroughly discrediting this idea would free human beings of an exaggerated anxiety about death.[1] <br /><br />Many atheists have also appealed to the (ultimately Epicurean) argument that death has no significance for human beings, since by definition they cannot be there to experience it. <a href="http://www.investigatingatheism.info/whoswhoeighteenth.html#holbach" rel="nofollow">D'Holbach</a>, for example, stressed that for these reasons death should not be a cause for anxiety.[2]<br /><br />There are numerous contemporary defenders of this position. The philosophical atheist Michael Martin, for example, may also be said to share this relative optimism. <br /><br />Martin points out that human beings find individual projects intrinsically meaningful regardless of whether their lives as a whole are meaningful (which the atheist must admit they are not). <br /><br />Similarly evidence that the sum total of human achievement will be annihilated in the heat death of the universe, as is supposed to be highly probable on current physical predictions, does not make present human cultural achievements meaningless for us now. <br /><br />For so long as we are here they are meaningful. Martin appeals to the fact that there are happy and fulfilled atheists as evidence for this. <br /><br />Adopting a detached 'God's eye' view on things from where the sum of human activity can be seen to be meaningless is just one perspective humans can take up towards things, but humans are not obliged to adopt this perspective rather than the ordinary (meaningful) one, and they therefore need not become despondent.[3]<br /><br />However, it is probably fair to say that it has generally been admitted among the majority of thinking atheists that the fear of annihilation could not be so easily set aside. <br /><br />Claude-Adrien Helvetius (1715-1771) and Denis Diderot (1713-84) admitted that the consequences of a consistent atheism were depressing, and they sought comfort in ersatz forms of survival, such as species survival. <br /><br />Diderot, for example, affirmed that the individual perishes, but the species has no end.[4] <br /><br />One might include Marxist '<a href="http://www.investigatingatheism.info/radicalhegelianism.html" rel="nofollow">scientific atheism</a>', Social Darwinism and reformist secular humanism of a Dawkinsian sort as forms of atheism that attempt to address the problem of meaninglessness by promoting faith in an ersatz form of survival. <br /><br />That is, in the two former cases, species survival and its progressive perfection, albeit to be achieved in quite different ways. <br /><br />In the latter case, the progressive improvement of the human condition would be achieved through the weakening of the influence of religion.daveg4gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17732427.post-29094982777897141582010-06-15T08:48:42.313+02:002010-06-15T08:48:42.313+02:00Religious belief has traditionally provided human ...Religious belief has traditionally provided human beings with a reason to think that their individual lives have a purpose, and that the existence of humanity as such has a purpose. Atheism, on the contrary, has generally taught that both individual human beings and (eventually) humanity as a whole have no purpose in the universe, and that they will be definitively annihilated in the course of time (human beings after their short spans of life, humanity - at latest - when the earth finally becomes uninhabitable). In the light of this prima facie deeply depressing prospect, the question of life's meaning or purpose within atheism has posed a peculiarly difficult challenge to atheists since the origins of modern atheism in the seventeenth century.<br /><br />Religious believers have traditionally not been slow to point out that atheism must lead to despair, since it deprives humans of the hope that injustices in this life will be corrected in the next, and frustrates what would appear to be their natural desire to live forever. It also frustrates humans' hope that reality is fundamentally good rather than bad or indifferent with respect to them, and deprives them of any genuine motivation to act in the world.<br /><br />To these objections atheists have firstly generally responded (quite reasonably) that even if all this were true, these unfortunate consequences would not disprove atheism. However, atheists have differed significantly on the further question of whether it is actually true that these consequences would indeed follow as alleged by their religious objectors.daveg4gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17732427.post-5158520490863188292010-06-15T08:45:49.359+02:002010-06-15T08:45:49.359+02:00◉ July 2008: The Holy Spirit lit a fire at World Y...◉ July 2008: The Holy Spirit lit a fire at World Youth Day in Sydney.<br /><br />◉ July 2009: The Catholic Forum threw wood into that fire with the Tim Staples "The Bible Made Me Catholic" Tour. <br /><br />and <b>>NOW....GET READY AUSTRALIA!</b><br /><br />◉ JULY 2010: We have not 1, not 2, but 3 International Catholic speakers coming to Australia for<br /><i>"The Fullness of Truth"</i> nationwide tour!<br /><br />► Alex Jones - Ex-Pentecostal Minister †<br />► Steve Ray - Ex-Baptist Pastor †<br />► Fr. Mitch Pacwa S.J. - Founder of Ignatius Productions and EWTN TV Host †<br /><br />Come along and bring your family and friends to hear these great speakers give inspiring and moving talks all over Australia - Sydney, Melbourne, Canberra, Brisbane, Perth and Regional NSW. <br /><br />Come and hear their testimonies and how they came to embrace the fullness of truth found in the Catholic Church.<br /><br />Talks will cover: The Blessed Virgin Mary, The Papacy, The Bible, The Priesthood, The Eucharist, Marriage, Islam, Free - masonry, Atheism and many more....Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07940745178193985942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17732427.post-85336665389258019712010-06-14T13:41:58.375+02:002010-06-14T13:41:58.375+02:00Thanks for this post. I love your perspective on ...Thanks for this post. I love your perspective on this issue. Although I am not in a cross-faith marriage, I am grappling with being an Agnostic new mother with scores of Catholic and Baptist relatives surrounding us. Our challenge is to rear our children with knowledge and respect of all faiths and focus on the values that should be shared by everyone, religious and non-religious. It's good to keep discovering those who have the same mindset, even if parenting has not been experienced yet! Thanks so much!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17732427.post-65912809328708614452010-06-12T23:28:13.084+02:002010-06-12T23:28:13.084+02:00All this talk of hell... how utterly depressing. ...All this talk of hell... how utterly depressing. Muslims also believe in hell, by the way. Fundamentalist Muslims will tell you that you are headed there if you do not believe in Allah, and will quote verse after verse from the Koran to show you that it is true. Why do Christians not believe their version of the story bur totally agree with their own? Would readers please just think about this before raving on and on about hell and judgment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com